Interview: Ambassador Reuben Brigety on Atlanta’s Key Role in U.S. Relations With South Africa

Editor’s note: Ambassador Reuben Brigety helped kickstart his Atlanta Phambili (Forward) initiative by leading a high-level delegation of South Africans and U.S. government officials to Atlanta in March.

Global Atlanta visited the country on a Dispatch reporting trip in June and is working on a special report about the city’s ties with South Africa. We spoke with Mr. Brigety by phone about why the city was chosen and how the relationship fits into the broader ‘affirmative agenda’ between the U.S. and the continent’s most developed economy. The interview has been lightly edited for length and flow.

Global Atlanta: Ambassador Brigety, thanks for chatting with us: Why did you feel that the U.S.-South Africa relationship needed a geographic focal point like Atlanta?

Ambassador Brigety: It’s a complex relationship, a longstanding one. If you’ve been following the news in the last couple of years, you will note that there are some non-trivial disagreements that our governments have been trying to navigate. But notwithstanding those, or others that may appear in the future, we have a robust affirmative agenda that it’s in our mutual interest to work through, on everything from health care to job creation, trade, investment, education, technology transfer, logistics, and the like.

It occurred to us that all those things are very well represented in the U.S. city of Atlanta, which as we all know is also the cradle of the American civil rights movement, with deep ties to the anti-apartheid struggle. Also, Atlanta is known for being the mecca of black excellence in the United States in the context of a multiracial environment. These are all things that really resonate with South Africans.

So we pitched to our South African colleagues the idea of “Atlanta Phambili,” Phambili being a Zulu/Xhosa word meaning forward, with the idea being that we can take advantage of the rich ecosystem of all those things in the city of Atlanta as an anchor, if you will, for the affirmative aspects of our relationship going forward, even as whatever differences we may have will be adjudicated in our respective political capitals in Washington and Pretoria. I said to our South African friends, I will consider this a strategic success if you come to see that Atlanta is your home away from home in the United States of America.

I think suffice it to say that for those that were on the trip, they bought it, and we’re thrilled. And I will tell you quite frankly that the best part of the whole thing is that it was as if average Atlantans were in on it, as it were. Everybody they talked to — hotel workers, random people they met in coffee shops, hosts at the airport, ladies on the street — was just so warm and welcoming. And we couldn’t have planned that. We could have anticipated your typical kind of Southern charm, but it was just fantastic, so much so that our South African friends are very, very eager to come back to Atlanta to deepen this relationship. And I have said, ‘That’s fine, but not before Atlanta comes to South Africa.’”

I said to our South African friends, I will consider this a strategic success if you come to see that Atlanta is your home away from home in the United States of America.

REuben Brigety II

When is that happening?

That’s a good question. And so as I’ve said, two things are essential: that Atlanta Phambili is not an event; it is a process. And look, Atlanta Phambili doesn’t mean you can’t go or engage any other city in America for anything else you need, but it is to say that Atlanta has everything you need, essentially.

It seems like this is a revival of sorts. In the late ‘90s, there was quite a bit of interest in South Africa — the state of Georgia had an office there, and at one point Chick-fil-A even opened in South Africa for a brief time. So how do you make sure this is enduring, particularly given the politics on both sides?

I’d say two things: The first is that I have said to my team here, that. And also, quite frankly, to my South African colleagues that I see this as a legacy issue for my tenure as U.S. ambassador here. And so I want to do everything within my power on my watch to ensure that this initiative is institutionalized.

Now, that said, in life, all any of us can do is carry the ball, and then other people will do what they do. But my hope is that we will demonstrate the value of this channel of engagement on both sides so that other people will take it and transform it in ways that make sense for them.

But I think you touched on something very important, which is in the early to mid-90s, in the miraculous political developments following the end of apartheid and the birth of the rainbow nation, there was enormous interest in South Africa in the United States and in other places. A lot of the intensity of that focus and interest waned, and I think it’s fair to say that that is true on both sides of the relationship.

One of the things I say a lot is that for a good 15 years, we have been going like this [motions with hands moving in different directions] in the relationship, talking past each other and taking each other for granted in important ways. And so the downside of the current geopolitical moment is that it has brought some of those disagreements into much starker relief. But it’s also helped both sides to reevaluate the strategic benefit of the affirmative aspects of our relationship and find to find ways to, to emphasize that. Atlanta Phambili is sort of the lodestone, as it were, for this renaissance in our relationship.

Do you see a connection between efforts to build/boost Black business in Atlanta with what South Africa wants to achieve in closing its own racial wealth gaps?

The work that is being done in Atlanta is of enormous interest here in South Africa. It’s a real existential issue. Thirty years after the end of apartheid, South Africa remains the most economically unequal society on the planet, with the highest gini coefficient. And as President Cyril Ramaphosa has said, the principal issues the government and society here must tackle are the threefold challenges of poverty, inequality and unemployment. South Africa has an official unemployment rate of 35 percent — unofficial in the 40s, youth unemployment well into the 60s.

The vast majority of that impacts the Black population, so much so that many young South Africans, quite frankly, are really questioning, What does freedom mean if I can’t get a job? So the government and private sector and civil society in South Africa are really, really interested in how you crack that nut, and to the extent that Atlanta is doing that work, that is not only an enormous source of practical information for South Africa, but quite frankly, also a source of great inspiration as well.

Atlanta Phambili is the lodestone for this renaissance in our relationship.

REUBEN E. BRigety, II

You’re a longtime academic and former vice-chancellor in Sewanee at the University of the South. I noticed that your son is at Georgia Tech, and that you took the Phambili group both there and to Georgia State’s Andrew Young School of Policy Studies. Obviously, our HBCUs and the Atlanta University Center are a huge part of this relationship. How do you see academia being central to this initiative? And where do Atlanta’s unique strengths lie in that regard with the assets that we have here?

I am a deep, deep believer in the power of education. I’m a fourth generation educator — my mother, grandmother and my great-grandmother were all educators. I have lived and seen the transformative power that education has, both for individual lives and in the lives of nations. The other thing is that strong educational institutions and processes are essential for democracy, both for ours and in a democracy like South Africa’s as well, so I think that educational institutions are serve as natural nodes for building partnerships, for developing the next generation of young people that will be leaders of their nation going forward, and also as centers of innovation to tackle pressing or persistent challenges.

One of the reasons we decided to focus on Atlanta (in our view that Atlanta has everything that South Africa has asked for and needs) is technology transfer. Georgia Tech, where my son as you noted is a student, is the third-ranked engineering school in the United States of America with a multi-billion dollar impact on the economy of the state of Georgia, just by virtue of the of the patents, technology and company spinoffs that come out of there.

The government of South Africa has repeatedly asked us to engage with HBCUs as partners in learning. Every time they ask, they always talk about Howard — no disrespect to Howard, it’s great school, led by my good friend, Ben Vinson — but I say, ‘Look, you all need to focus on the Atlanta University complex. You need to know more about Spelman and Morehouse and Morris Brown.’

They have repeatedly asked us to help them capacitate their civil servants. And they always ask us, Can you help us create something with the Harvard Kennedy School? I’m like, Yeah, Harvard’s great, but let me tell you about the Andrew Young School, whose namesake is quite frankly one of the great linkages in the civil rights and anti-apartheid struggle. They know all this.

One thing I’ve found interesting being in South Africa in particular, but in the African continent in general, is that people know Atlanta. There’s obviously education to do, but just the general baseline awareness about what Atlanta is and represents seems to be there in a way that is not in other parts of the world.

We have just barely begun to think about to touch to scratch the itch on what the possibilities are. We are doing our level best to drive this, but as I said, this has to be reciprocal process.

What do you tell people about how to overcome the opportunity cost of engaging with Africa? It seems like there’s still kind of a resistance on the part of the business community, especially amongst SMEs.

I’d say three basic things: The first is that our government has never been better positioned to support businesses, and SMEs in particular, to engage in global trade. Whether it be the Africa Trade Desk that was launched during Atlanta Phambili, or the Export Import Bank, Development Finance Corporation or any number of other entities within the U.S. government that literally have every conceivable tool that you need, from financing, to political risk insurance, to local knowledge on the ground to matchmaking — all these things are going to help you find the right partners and find markets.

The second thing that I would say is that this entrepreneurial spirit that built America. It is easier to go and sell your merchandise in Africa today than it was to say, build the Transcontinental Railroad or whatever. And so, as Americans, we have this history and this tradition — it’s how we built a country across a continent.

Which leads to the third point: the growth of the future is in Africa. If you have a kid that’s in kindergarten right now, by the time they graduate college, by mid-century, one quarter of humanity is going to be Africa, so the opportunity that presents for growths of markets, for interpersonal exchange, for exponential changes in how we do business, is enormous.

We’ve seen the African Continental Free Trade Agreement come about — it’s still got some work to do in terms of actual integration and infrastructure, but do you see South Africa being kind of the beachhead for folks that really want to do business across the continent? I know that some companies use it that way, but is that still too early to really say?

South Africa certainly sees itself that way, and there are good reasons for that. It remains the most industrialized economy on the continent. It continues to have the most developed infrastructure. I am cautiously optimistic with this new government that is just put in place that they have gotten the message that they need to get much more serious about service delivery and the functioning of their government, which I’m hopeful will address some of the challenges in energy and infrastructure that have developed, particularly of course, the last decade or so. It’s geographically strategically located in ways that very few countries in the world are.

Now, there are of course, other countries on the continent, that for various reasons, will be of great interest to other companies, whether it can be Kenya in the East, Nigeria in the West, Tunisia and Morocco in the north, or Rwanda in the center. Look it’s a big place, so no matter where you go, you’re far from everywhere. You can you can fit the continental United States three times over in the continent of Africa.

Why is it important for you as the American ambassador to be so interested in the creation of jobs in South Africa and making sure this relationship is a true two-way street?

I am always about the business of supporting American business, everywhere in the world to include business here: there are over 600 American companies that operate South Africa that employ 225,000 People that generate revenue roughly equivalent of 10 percent of South Africa’s GDP, and we can still do more.

That said, it is in the strategic interest of the United States that South Africa succeed as a democracy that can deliver for its people. At a time when democracy is contested around the world, frankly, when you take a look at the string of coup in the Sahel in North Africa, largely led by a younger generation of people that are fed up with sclerotic government administrations that are not creating pathways for their young people. Given what I’ve just told you about the serious unemployment issues in South Africa that overwhelmingly, almost exclusively hit young black South Africans, that is absolutely a threat to the democratic success of post-apartheid South Africa.

So the stability quite frankly in the region really depends on on the stability and the economic health of South Africa.

How important is the renewal of South Africa’s participation in the African Growth and Opportunity Act for the country? On our trip, we saw a lot of companies with great products, and I’m sure that market access is top of mind for them.

Renewal of AGOA is probably the top priority of the government of South Africa and our relationship, I would guess. You have to ask them, but in terms of how we receive their messaging, it is of great importance to them. The Biden administration has said publicly, it’s in the interest of the United States for AGOA to be renewed and for South Africa to be included in that renewal. There have been some concerns, non-trivial concerns, by members of Congress expressed about South Africa. Last time they were mainly around issues of market access, things about trade, per se. This time, it is almost all geopolitics.

So we are working hard to be able to find each other and understand each other better, shall we say, so that we can continue with the affirmative aspects of this relationship. We’ll see. I think there are responsibilities on both sides. Congress, I think, is taking a very serious look, they have sent some very clear signals to South Africa that have been heard loudly and clearly here across the political spectrum. This is going to be a very important probably 12-month period before AGOA has to be renewed before the end of the fiscal year 2025, and so hopefully, we’ll be able to find and get to the right place.

[Note: New DTIC Minister Parks Tau led South Africa’s delegation to the July 1 AGOA forum in Washington hosted by U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai. Mr. Tau told reporters he received assurances from members of Congress that the act would be renewed. Read more: Senator Pledges Support for AGOA Renewal as South Africa Spotlights Atlanta